“R”+ L = J By: Wolfmaid7
Introduction
I remember being blown away by the “Sixth Sense” after the final twist was revealed. More so because retrospectively the clues were there, especially in the most memorable phrase of the movie “I see dead people walking around like regular people. They don’t see each other. They only see what they want to see. They don’t know they’re dead.” All this while Bruce Willis is sitting right there in our faces; the twist of course was Bruce Willis being dead all the while. What made the clues indiscernible at least to me was the play on character and viewer perception of the everyday interaction, expectations and biases. IMO,the issue of Jon’s parentage is something similar, where clues are hidden in realism more times than not. We expect something fantastic, a love that’s so unreal it belongs in a fairytale, or a moment that starts an epic love affair. It’s the same with the characters in this story who retell events in grandiose fashion adding color and pizzazz. Like Sansa we are slain by the stories of tournaments only to be made speechless by the reality. Love is presented to us as something spectacular, epic, a madding emotion, borne from prophecy that makes one do crazy shit, and we buy that because it’s bigger than life. Yet, all the while missing what’s there, hidden in plain view.
We ask ourselves the right questions, kinda i.e.‘Why Ned hasn’t thought of Rheagar in years if he’s Jon’s father’ when the question should be “has Ned ever thought/talked about anyone in particular to Jon?” Deep down we know it’s unrealistic that Ned would be unable to keep Jon’s father out of his thoughts FOR YEARS. Let alone not speak of him. He would find some way to tell Jon about his father without revealing anything’s amiss. We ask the right question, but ignore the answer when it’s right there in the way GRRM constructed the narrative. The reality is Ned could never NOT think of Jon’s father. That’s impossibly unrealistic even in GRRM’s world, and he wouldn’t ever go without trying to have Jon know something of him or even speak of him.
“The king was a great disappointment to Jon. His father had talked of him often: the peerless Robert Baratheon, demon of the Trident, the fiercest warrior of the realm, a giant among princes.”
Jon, is the only one of the Stark kids whom we are told Ned talked of Robert to and quite a bit. We hear no such claims from the others. Ned could have talked to the others about Robert, but its not what is relayed. Jon was the one the author chose to say this through. So, if you couldn’t tell the child you raised about his real dad, realistically how might you introduce him? Might you tell of his exploits without telling the truth? Talk him up, and his badassary? That is exactly what Ned did. He elevated Robert to Jon, exalting him above all warriors and all Princes. Furthermore, this trickling of info continues through the story, where the author uses various characters to give insight into Robert to Jon. Robert shows up in Jon’s chapter more than any other prospect for the precise purpose “it seems” of having people talk about his strengths, flaws. How he was and how he’d changed. I shit you not, look it up. If quantity of a potential in Jon’s chapter is a base for figuring his father prepare for shock and awe. But it’s not so much the quantity, it’s chapters upon chapters exposition about Robert to Jon. If this reveal does come. The idea of Robert +Lyanna is not new to Jon, he already knows there’s a connection.
So, you may have guessed by now that this theory postulates that Robert and Lyanna were Jon’s parents. This essay will delve into the subtle and obscure clues; symbolism, parallels, themes, events before and during Harrenthal that connect Robert and Lyanna romantically, Jon to both Robert and Lyanna and ultimately connect all three. Additionally, some miscellaneous info that sets the background to what may have occurred.
Where misconceptions begin ………….and should end
“Robert will never keep to one bed,” Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm’s End. “<snip>, but he assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. “Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man’s nature.”–GoT, pg. 379.
We could all agree that the above quote indicates that Lyanna has knowledge of Robert’s past and a belief about his inability to be faithful. Noteworthy, is her familiarity with him. She addresses him not as “Robert Baratheon,” but “Robert” -Familiarity. We should also note when the timing of this conversation took place; which was the night Lyanna found out she was to wed Robert. So, they were betrothed at least 3yrs before she went missing. The WB author states:”Robert and Lyanna were long bethrothed.” So there was time enough for this concern about Robert to be proven, or not. And there’s only one way for that to happen. Only one way for Lyanna to know if Robert would keep to one bed.It involves them sleeping together and him stepping out on her. Agreed?
Lastly, this notion that Lyanna didn’t want the marriage needs to be dispel.She never expressed this,though she could have.Through this entire story we have individuals; Sansa, Dany, Brandon all voicing wanting a match or not.In a conversation where it wold be perfectly natural to say “Ned i don’t want this.” She never does. She verbalized no issue with the match except whether Robert would be able to dock his cock in one port only. The tone of the conversation implied that she was worried, else Ned would never have had to reassure her. What we should be asking is if Robert forsook all others when he and Lya got betrothed? The answer is yes. Had Robert been sewing oats while he thought she was missing. Ned’s attitude towards him would be less than brotherly.
The politics of marriage
GRRM has showed us outcomes of several arranged marriages in this series. e.g. Cat and Ned grew to love each other. Dany and Drogo grew in love and Elia and Rhaegar had a solid relationship. Then we have Robert and Cersei, who were disastrous, Sansa and Joff also disastrous. No matter the outcome, all of these couples went or would go through with what was best for their family’s ambitions because it is what was expected of them. From the main text and the World book, we know alliances were being made via marriages, of which BraCat ,JoLys RoLya were pairings; a power block on the rise. Brandon was marrying Cat no matter how he felt. If Barbrey was truthful:
“The day I learned that Brandon was to marry Catelyn Tully, though … there was nothing sweet about that pain. He never wanted her, I promise you that. He told me so, on our last night together … but Rickard Stark had great ambitions too. Southern ambitions <snip> ADWD Chpt 38.
Brandon is a good example of doing what he must despite how he felt. Feeling or not, Lyanna would know how important this alliance was to her family and her place in securing it as she was taught to. The take away from this: Duty to family, and if you’re lucky you might grow to love your intended. A strong possibility for Lyanna and Robert who had the time to grow in love where there initial relationship was different. All this brings me to (3) of GRRM’s quotes.
“And then there are some things that just don’t square with history. In some sense I’m trying to respond to that. [For example] the arranged marriage, which you see constantly in the historical fiction and television show,
almost always when there’s an arranged marriage, the girl doesn’t want it and rejects it and she runs off with the stable boy instead. This never fucking happened. It just didn’t. There were thousands, tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of arranged marriages in the nobility through the thousand years of Middle Ages and people went through with them. That’s how you did it. It wasn’t questioned. Yeah, occasionally you would want someone else, but you wouldn’t run off with the stable boy
“And that’s another of my pet peeves about fantasies. The bad authors adopt the class structures of the middle Ages<snip>they have scenes where the spunky peasant girl tells off the pretty prince. The pretty prince would have raped the spunky peasant girl. He would have put her in the stocks and then had garbage thrown at her. You know. I mean, the class structures in places like this had teeth.
They had consequences. And people were brought up from their childhood to know their place and to know that duties of their class and the privileges of their class. It was always a source of friction when someone got outside of that thing. And I tried to reflect that.”
Sum: Given GRRM’s quotes, along with the social, political and emotional stakes and ideologies involved, it’s highly unlikely that Lya bolted from her betrothal to Robert in the same token. It’s just as unlikely that Rhaegar kidnapped/ran off with her.This takes inverting the examples GRRM gave, so Lyanna is the stableboy and Rhaegar is the Princess.
Furthermore, from the below quotes there’s no indication from Robert and Ned that Lyanna and Robert weren’t going to get married had she not died. That was still going to happen and it’s even more interesting from Ned’s perspective because years later his thoughts still indicated the marriage was going to happen had she lived. Ned’s thoughts and Robert’s words doesn’t betray that Lyanna ran away after years from her betrothal to Robert.
“We were meant to rule together. If Lyanna had lived, we should have been brothers, bound by blood as well as affection. Well, it is not too late.”
Robert had loved her even more. She was to have been his bride. (AGOT,Ned).
Clues to an intimate relationship between Robert and Lyanna
I am now going to explore clues that Lyanna and Robert were intimately involved.Lucky for us, Robert and Ned wouldn’t be dead for a while and a crucial bit of info is revealed via the only statement we have from Lya.When it comes to one half of this equation,we actually see and hear what Robert felt for Lya from (4) credible sources. Something that cannot be said for any other prospect.
- Lyanna had only been sixteen, a child-woman of surpassing loveliness. Ned had loved her with all his heart.
Robert had loved her even more. She was to have been his bride. (AGOT,Ned).Oooooooo2. “Her {Cersei’s} eyes burned, green fire in the dusk, <snip>. “The night of our wedding feast, the first time we shared a bed, he called me by your sister’s name. He was on top of me, in me, stinking of wine, and he whispered Lyanna.”Ned thought of pale blue roses, and for a moment he wanted to weep.—Ned,GoT, pg. 480.——-Daaaaang
3. “He’s still in love with the sister, the insipid little dead sixteen year old.” How long till he decides to put me aside for some new Lyanna AGOT, Bran, Pg.83……Snap
4. “The gods be damned. It was a hollow victory they gave me. A crown … it was the girl I prayed them for. Your sister, safe … and mine again, as she was meant to be.” —–Hmmmm
5. “Oh, Cersei is lovely to look at, truly, but cold . . . the way she guards her cunt, you’d think she had all the gold of Casterly Rock between her legs.”——-Hmmmmm
6. I dishonored myself and I dishonored Catelyn, in the sight of gods and men. “Gods have mercy, you scarcely knew Catelyn.””I had taken her to wife. She was carrying my child. “You are too hard on yourself. You always were. Damn it, no woman wants Baelor the Blessed in her bed.”
7. “She was more beautiful than that,” the king said after a silence. His eyes lingered on Lyanna’s face, as if he could will her back to life. <Snip> “Ah, damn it, Ned, did you have to bury her in a place like this?” His voice was hoarse with remembered grief.”<Snip>. “The king touched her cheek, his fingers brushing across the rough stone as gently as if it were living flesh.”——-Hmmmmm
8. “And Cersei… I have Jon Arryn to thank for her. I had no wish to marry after Lyanna was taken from me, but Jon said the realm needed an heir.”
Validation of Robert’s love for Lyanna comes from Robert himself, Cersei, Ned and even Renly. Through Robert’s behaviors it can be argued that Robert could be grieving for the unrealized, which is the weakest of the arguments given the context of the quotes, or mourning what was and is no more which best fits what he’s displaying and others are saying and by that I speak of the intensity and depth.Its strange that Robert’s behavior where Lyanna is concerned is that of a man that didn’t have a relationship with her beyond the superficial. So, did Lya “guard her cunt” from Robert like Cersei did? Was she cold as Cersei? Given Robert’s Statement, (he seems kinda taken aback by Cersei’s non commitance) Cersei is the only woman to put a padlock on her pussy against him. A side note, Robert’s reply to Ned about Cat exposes an interesting mindset of his. Knowing is an intimate thing and Ned didn’t know Cat, so in Robert’s eyes Ned didn’t dishonor Cat because he didn’t know her “Knowing” warrants fidelity. Ned, Robert and Cersei’s statements validates Robert’s love for a woman he knew. What he is displaying, and what is never shown or described by anyone else Rhaegar for e.g. when it comes to Lya ….is Intimacy. Pay special attention to how Ned describes Robert’s behavior toward Lya’s statue, pay attention to how Robert refers to getting Lya safe “mine again.” The idea of “mine” comes up a couple of times in this series and usually when referring an intimate i.e.
“She pushed him back against the trunk of a tree and kissed him, full on the lips right there in the midst of the ragged column. <Snip>. He kissed her back despite all that. When they finally broke apart, Ygritte was flushed. “You’re mine,” she whispered. “Mine, as I’m yours. And if we die, we die. All men must die, Jon Snow. But first we’ll live.”
“He is mine.” She rose to her feet. “They all tried to take him from me. My lord father, my husband, your mother…Catelyn most of all. She liked to kiss my Petyr too, oh yes she did (asos,Sansa).
This theme is one of endearment, one of physical and/or emotional intimacy and it’s a constant exhibition by Robert. Now let’s look at the only conversation we have of Lya concerning Robert again. Look at the connotation of her statement.I believe this to be a hint by the author to Lya’s state of mind going prior.
“Robert will never keep to one bed,”
It’s something that gets overlooked the moment Lya uttered those famous words. It’s worth keeping in mind, that Robert has been sexually active from a very young age, and Lyanna is aware of that. Those close to him like Ned knew that “Robert Baratheon had always been a man of huge appetites, a man who knew how to take his pleasures (AGOT,Ned 1).He didn’t cheat on her,and i doubt Robert wouldn’t make a play. Would Lya have guarded her cunt from Robert? Did Robert abstain from pussy, OR was he in fact “keeping to one bed -Lya’s….Now I’m not saying Robert and Lyanna had an ongoing sexual relationship. I believe they’ve only ever done it once. What I am saying is Lyanna wasn’t “closed” to him; she may have shown openness to his advances. From her conversation with Ned, intimacy of that type was already on the table. Why would she be worried about Robert not keeping to one bed (hers), if she wasn’t willing or offering up her own when and if he wanted?
The truth, Lya had no qualms about having sex with Robert from the get bethrothed or married would be up to them, just as long as it was only her bed. When Robert asked for “ah lil ting ting” and he would we all know that, what would Lya have done? What are the odds that during their entire betrothal Robert never wanted a romantic encounter or under the right circumstances it didn’t happen? What are the odds that Lya knowing full well his appetite turned him down? They were betrothed.
“Mother says I’m still to marry you so you’ll stay here.”
“I’ll get you with child as soon you’re able.”…….”When do you think you’ll be able to have children?”Pg 747.
Yes,” Septa Scolera echoed, “and you must feel so much lighter now, clean and innocent as a maid on the morning of her wedding. “I fucked Jaime on the morning of my wedding, the queen recalled.
“He would have served up my maidenhead to any Stark who happened by, but there was no need. Brandon was never shy about taking what he wanted. I am old now, a dried-up thing, too long a widow, but I still remember the look of my maiden’s blood on his cock the night he claimed me (adwd Barbrey).
As you can see premarital sex happened rather frequently or was talked about. But if you are a gentleman and a lady you didn’t blab about it.You don’t speak of a lady if she was deflowered prior to marriage.That’s messed up. In the case of Sansa and Joffrey had she gotten preggers before their marriage they would have simply spun it. Despite what was expected by society these things happened. e.g. Harrenhall Tourney.
The coat of arms worth a thousand words
Under the right atmosphere i don’t think Lyanna would say no to Robert; taking into consideration Cersei’s retelling of her experience and Robert’s own reference to Lya, them having sex was sure as Fantastic 4 flopping at the box office.Is there more hints in support of reciprocity? Let’s look at this hint.That feelings did develop both ways.
“Perhaps you should wed Tully to Stark in your arms. A wolf with a fish in its mouth “That made her laugh. “Besides if a girl can’t fight why should she have a coat of arms?” Jon to Arya—Agot.
“But the mystery knight was short of stature, and clad in ill-fitting armor made up of bits and pieces. The device upon his shield was a heart tree of the old gods, a white weirwood with a laughing red face (asos,Bran).”
Keep in mind the concept of the above quotes, the joining of representations on the arms.
“He laughed uproariously, and even Ned smiled, remembering. This was the boy he had grown up with, he thought; this was the Robert Baratheon he’d known and loved.”
“Gods,” he swore, laughing, “It feels good to get out and ride the way a man was meant to ride! (AGOT,Ned Chpt 12).”
“Robert … He is in my dreams as well. Laughing. Drinking. Boasting. Those were the things he was best at. Those, and fighting. (Stannis about Robert).
“He heard his laughter in the dark, saw his eyes, blue and clear as mountain lakes. “Look at us, Ned,” Robert said. “Gods, how did we come to this?”Agot,Ned ,Chpt 58.
“Is that any way to speak to your King? He let go, his laughter sudden as a storm. ”Ah damn you Ned….”
“Robert succeeded him as Lord of Storm’s End and grew to be one of the finest Knight’s in the Seven Kingdom………-a warrior so strong and fearless that many hailed him the Laughing Storm reborn WB,pg,230.
“The weirwood was the heart of Winterfell, Lord Eddard always said … but to save the castle Jon would have to tear that heart up by its ancient roots,<snip> ASOS,Jon.
“I was with her when she died,” Ned reminded the king. “She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father (AGOT, Ned, pg.43).
Sum: Lyanna was a fighter as we know, and Lya as TKOTLT did just what Arya and Jon were speaking of and what we are seeing is IMO a retrospective look place by the author into the figure we know as TKOTLT. Lya wed what is well known and loved about Robert’s nature-his laughter-to what symbolized Winter Fell/home a place she loved–its heart tree- on her arms.
Lyanna’s initial fears about Robert being unfaithful to her turned out to be false after all and more to the point during their betrothal that would have become very apparent to her that she was wrong and Ned’s statement about how much Robert “would” love her turned out to be true. “Ned loved her with all his heart and Robert even more. Now I hope you all see it, for Ned’s statement about Robert’s feelings of love to be true he had to be speaking contextually of the time it would make more sense, which was when Lyanna and Robert were betrothed.Now what would be the basis of Ned saying this? He had to have observed this.
A perfect match
Contrary to some belief, Rickard didn’t make a poor match for Lya, he actually did her a solid. Robert and Lyanna in terms of compatibility were a perfect match. There was nothing they couldn’t love about each other and if fidelity wasn’t an issue which it wasn’t , then sparks could very well fly.
About Lyanna:
“‘You have a wildness in you, child. ‘The wolf blood,’ my father used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch. It brought them both to an early grave. “Ned to Arya (I 215).
“The crowning of the Stark girl who by all accounts was a wild and boyish thing…… (WB, pg137).
“He [Brandon] loved to ride. His little sister took after him in that. A pair of centaurs, those two. ADWD chpt 38.
“That evening there was to be a feast in Harrenhal, to mark the opening of the tourney, and the she-wolf insisted that the lad attend. He was of high birth, with as much a right to a place on the bench as any other man. She was not easy to refuse…..”
About Robert:
“He (Ned) was no Jon Arryn, to curb the wildness of his king and teach him wisdom. Robert would do what he pleased, as he always had, and nothing Ned could say or do would change that (AGOT,Ned.Chp 12).”
“He’s only a boy,” Ned said awkwardly. He had small liking for Prince Joffrey, but he could hear the pain in Robert’s voice. “Have you forgotten how wild you were at his age?” Agot Ned.”
“I am heartily sick of secrets and squabbles and matters of state, Ned. It’s all as tedious as counting coppers. Come, let’s ride, you used to know how. I want to feel the wind in my hair again.” He kicked his horse back into motion and galloped up over the barrow, raining earth down behind him (AGOT,Ned Chpt 12).
“Gods,” he swore, laughing, “It feels good to get out and ride the way a man was meant to ride! I swear, Ned, this creeping along is enough to drive a man mad.” He had never been a patient man, Robert Baratheon AGOT,Ned,chpt 12).”
Mythic parallel and theme: Connections Robert, Lyanna and Jon.
GRRM incorporated several world mythologies in his story and some of these myths overlap in the lives of some of the characters, but sometimes we get a gem that is very unique to certain characters and events. One such myth has very strong allusions that Jon’s parents are Robert and Lyanna.This isn’t an exact match down to evey detail.It can’t be, there’s stuff that happenes in real that isn’t even there and other variations and diversions are present but the gist is still there and fits perfectly.
We look toward a ritual that was recreated by the author at Harrenhal. In many pagan traditions, Beltane the third holiday on the “wheel of the year” is a major fertility festival between the spring and summer equinoxes. I believe certain characters in this story are acting out or have acted out the Wheel of the Year as well as an important ritual during Beltane festivities called “The grand rite” aka “the sacred marriage.” Central to the Beltane ritual are two figures. The Horned god,a solar god whose dual aspect Oak(e.g. Cernunnous, Green man, Corn King) and Holly king (e.g. Krampus, Santa Claus, Wodon) rules summer and winter respectively. In some traditions THL is one person with two parts to his nature. He receives a mortal wound, dies and is born again with the help of the goddess to continue the cycle. In other traditions the two aspects are brothers that are in an eternal war and they are killed in their turn to indicate which half of the year will be dominant and which brother is ruling. The Horned god is a natural hunter, warrior, fertile, virile and wild. He is life, death and rebirth.The masculine energy at the feast and is machismo personified. He has the honor of mating with the goddess who is also a dual deity floral/winter after he. At the “grand rite” couples hooking up is common but it is the above coupling that is important because from their union the horned god (Oak +Holly) is conceived anew, birthed and hidden until the fullness of time has come.
The Players and how they line up :
The above is a summary of Beltane, a snap shot of what goes on, who’s important. So how does that relate this story? Well GRRM has established the characters and set up the rite at Harrenhall and in the story.
Horned god:
“He found himself thinking of Robert more and more. <Snip> tall and handsome, his great antlered helm on his head, his Warhammer in hand, sitting his horse like a horned god. Agot,Ned,Chpt 58.”
“Robert? Robert was hunting. That was his custom. Whenever my time was near, my royal husband would flee to the trees with his huntsmen and hounds. When he returned he would present me with some pelts or a stag’s head, and I would present him with a baby.”
“He laughed and slapped his own ample stomach a thump. “And the girls, Ned!” he exclaimed, his eyes sparkling.”
“The king still wore his boots. Ned could see dried mud and blades of grass clinging to the leather where Robert’s feet stuck out beneath the blanket that covered him, A green doublet lay on the floor, slashed open and discarded, the cloth crusted with red-brown stains. The room smelled of smoke and blood and death.”
Here George has given us the imagery of Robert as both aspect of the Oak and Holly. We get the bad ass horned warrior in his youth and the jolly fat man with sparking eyes and rosy cheeks,to his final death. The green man has finally fallen.
The goddess:
“The slim, sad girl who wore a crown of pale blue roses and a white gown spattered with gore could only be Lyanna. ACOK Theon.
“Last of all, he came to the tomb where his father slept, with Brandon and Lyanna beside him.”Promise me, Ned,” Lyanna’s statue whispered. She wore a garland of pale blue roses, and her eyes wept blood.
The maiden crowned with a halo of flowers is the typical imagery for the goddess at Beltane and this is what Lyanna represents.
Wicker Man:
“Seventeen and new to knighthood, Rhaegar Targaryen had worn black plate over golden ring mail when he cantered onto the lists. Long streamers of red and gold and orange silk had floated behind his helm, like flames. AFFC,Cersei.
“The crown prince wore the armor he would die in: gleaming black plate with the three-headed dragon of his House wrought in rubies on the breast. A plume of scarlet silk streamed behind him when he rode, and it seemed no lance could touch him”
The Wicker man a product of modern paganism based off *ehem* sketchy origin (blood sacrifice) but in a ritualistic context he is the working of sympathetic magic. The purpose is to change what the effigy represents and hinder its power. Both Rhaegar ,Aerys and even Lord Rickard would fit the Wicker man archetype.They represent an era,order, system that needed to be changed and was with their deaths.
“A maying”( lovers going off at Beltane to have sex):
“There’s nothing like a tourney to make the blood run hot, so maybe some words were whispered in a tent of a night, words or kisses maybe more, but where’s the harm in that Spring had come-Harwin to Arya-(ASOS,Arya)
“Under Harren’s roof he ate and drank with the wolves, and many of their sworn swords besides, barrowdown men and moose and bears and mermen. The dragon prince sang a song so sad it made the wolf maid sniffle, but when her pup brother teased her for crying she poured wine over his head. A black brother spoke, asking the knights to join the Night’s Watch. The storm lord drank down the knight of skulls and kisses in a wine-cup war. (Meera Reed).
Good times, good wine, ceremony, pageantry,some fighting and sex.
” And when the triumphant Prince of Dragonstone named Lyanna Stark daughter of the Lord of Winterfell,the queen of love and beauty ,placing the garland of blue roses in her lap with the tip of his lance,……”
If you look a smidge deeper than the superficial belief that lance equates penis,lance dropping laurel in Lyanna’s lap means sex and baby; the crowning itself is another representation in the Beltane ritual.If you identified Rhaegar’s lance with the laurel dangling as a symbolic representation for the Maypole then you are correct.And it to is also part of the Beltane dialogue that signifies that the sacred marriage has happened the horned god and goddess have mated.This goes had in hand with what i presented before a strong suggestion that Lyanna and Robert were intimately involved.I would also like to point out an interesting fact of all the houses the Baratheon’s via the female line of Elanai are the only ones to said to come from the line of gods.
“The way the world is made. The truth is all around you, plain to behold.<snip>. There is ice and there is fire. Hate and love. Bitter and sweet. Male and female. Pain and pleasure. Winter and summer. Evil and good.” She took a step toward him. “Death and life. Everywhere, opposites. Everywhere, the war……. “The war,”she affirmed. “There is two onion Knight<snip> The war has been waged since time began (ASOS, Davos Chpt 25).”
From Mel’s tale,to the tale of Garth Greenhand, the Shrouded Lord etc, George has woven an important myth into this story that begins at the tourney.This begins Jon’s journey
Don’t worry I’m not proposing they actually got married in front of a Weirwood officiated by a drunken Septon etc..
Now I want to mention something that has come up in discussion and while i favor it the least, it’s not implausible that Robert heavy with drink at Harrenhal raped Lyanna. There’s no way Ned would tell Robert or Jon this and i don’t think Lya would want this known either.
“Robert Baratheon, the First of His Name, may there never be a second. A dim, drunken brute of a man. Let him weep in hell. Taena warmed the bed as well as Robert ever had, and never tried to force Cersei’s legs apart.“ AFFC, pg. 684
“She wondered what it would feel like to suckle on those breasts, to lay the Myrish woman back and push her legs apart and use her as a man would use her, the way Robert would use her when the drink was in him, and she was unable to bring him off with hand or mouth.” AFFC, pg. 685
“Those had been the worst nights, lying helpless underneath him as he took his pleasure, stinking of wine and grunting like a boar. Usually he rolled off and went to sleep as soon as it was done, and was snoring before his seed could dry upon her thighs. She was always sore afterward, raw between her legs, her breasts painful from the mauling he would give them. The only time he’d ever made her wet was on their wedding night.” AFFC, pg. 685
“For Robert, those nights never happened. Come morning he remembered nothing, or so he would have her believe. Once, during the first year of their marriage, Cersei had voiced her displeasure the next day. ‘You hurt me,’ she complained. He had the grace to look ashamed. ‘It was not me, my lady,’ he said in a sulky sullen tone, like a child caught stealing apple cakes from the kitchen. ‘It was the wine. I drink too much wine.’ To wash down his admission, he reached for a horn of ale. As he raised it to his mouth, she smashed her own horn in his face, so hard he chipped a tooth. Years later at a feast, she heard him telling a serving wench how he’d cracked his tooth in a melee. Well, our marriage was a melee, she reflected, so he did not lie.” AFFC, pg. 686
“The rest had all been lies, though. He did remember what he did to her that night, she was convinced of that. She could see it in his eyes. He only pretended to forget; it was easier to do that than to face his shame. Deep down Robert Baratheon was a coward. In time the assaults grew less frequent. During the first year of their marriage he took her at least once a fortnight; by the end it was not even once a year. He never stopped completely, though. Sooner or later there would come a night when he would drink too much and want to claim his rights. What shamed him in the light of day gave him pleasure in the dark.” AFFC, pg. 868
There’s certainly a case to be made for Robert drunk at Harrenhall committing something awful.
Jon Snow thou art the babe!!
Lets see if Jon boy fits the mold and follows in the vein of Robert’s archetype.
“This is not Winterfell’, he told him as he cut his meat with fork and dagger. ‘On the Wall, a man gets only what he earns. You’re no ranger, Jon, only a green boy with the smell of summer still on you.”
“He would play the game to its conclusion. He rose and dressed in darkness, as Mormont’s raven muttered across the room. “Corn,” the bird said, and, “King, “and, “Snow, Jon Snow, Jon Snow.” That was queer. The bird had never said his full name before, as best Jon could recall.”
“Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him“
Sum: We have the players and who they are, for GRRM has etched the trail for us and if we follow the theme in the narrative, given the pattern, clues, and how well these characters correspond to the myth we have found the connection between Robert, Lya and Jon. We see Jon’s transformation from a green boy to him eventually becoming the corn king and sacrifice.One more to go something colder and darker for winter.
Parallels and connections Jon and Robert
Mythically, inverse and out we have a solid foundation for how Robert, Lya and Jon connect with each other. Parallels should be made between things that “actually” happen and not assumptions .We see a fair amount of echoes between Jon and Robert via experiences we know they had because it’s in the text as facts.
So lets look at them
Jon:
He swallowed nervously and said, “Jon, could there be honor in a lie, if it were told for a … a good purpose?”
“It would depend on the lie and the purpose, I suppose.” Jon looked at Sam. “I wouldn’t advise it. You’re not made to lie, Sam.”—-Jon Snow to Sam Tarly
Robert:
“Robert slapped Ned on the back. ”Ah, say that I’m a better king than Aerys and be done with it. You never could lie for love nor honor, Ned Stark. —–Robert Baratheon to Ned Stark
-Here we have Jon and Robert speaking to their best friends on honor, lies and how seemingly horrible they are at lying. Funny enough both friends are actually concealing something important from them.
Robert:
“We all know what my brother would do. Robert would gallop up to the gates of Winterfell alone, break them with his Warhammer, and ride through the rubble to slay Roose Bolton with his left hand and the Bastard with his right…..”
Jon:
“This creature who makes cloaks from the skins of women has sworn to cut my heart out, and I mean to make him answer for those words <snip>.“The Night’s Watch will make for Hardhome. I ride to Winterfell alone…….. I have my swords, thought Jon Snow, and we are coming for you, Bastard.”
-Well what Robert would have done, is what Jon was on his way to doing before he got shanked.
Robert:
“I will kill every Targaryen I can get my hands on, until they are as dead as their dragons, and then I will piss on their graves. (Robert to Ned).”
Jon:
” Jon took the letter back. “Why would he help us now? <Snip> “Well,” said Sam, “That would bring scorn down upon House Lannister.” “Its death and destruction I want to bring down upon House Lannister, not scorn.” Jon lifted up the letter. (Jon to Sam affc.) “
Really Robert and Jon?
I mean can’t you guys just make a list like Arya and leave the innocents out?
Robert:
“It was the king’s voice that put an end to it . . . the king’s voice and twenty swords. Jon Arryn had told them that a commander needs a good battlefield voice, and Robert had proved the truth of that on the Trident. He used that voice now. “STOP THIS MADNESS,” he boomed, “IN THE NAME OF YOUR KING!”
“He has a lord’s voice, Jon thought. His father had always said that in battle a captain’s lungs were as important as his sword arm. “It does not matter how brave or brilliant a man is, if his commands cannot be heard,” Lord Eddard told his sons, so Robb and he used to climb the towers of Winterfell to shout at each other across the yard.”
Jon:
“The wall will stop them,” Jon heard himself say. He turned and said it again louder. “The wall will stop them. The wall defends itself. “He laughed, and Pyp and Owen and half a dozen more laughed with him. “They’re nothing. They are less use than our straw brothers here.”…….”They’re down there and we are up here and so long as we hold the gate, they cannot pass. THEY CANNOT PASS!”
A connection via a common lesson both used rally men.
Parallels and connections Jon and Lyanna
Here we see not only the echo of Lya’s experience in Jon’s but also a hint via Catelyn’s observation of Ned and confirmation in Ned’s own thoughts another echoing of his love for his sister.
“Whoever Jon’s mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away.”
“Lyanna had only been sixteen, a child-woman of surpassing loveliness. Ned had loved her with all his heart. Robert had loved her even more. She was to have been his bride.”
“They shoved him down every time he tried to rise, and kicked him when he curled up on the ground. But then they heard a roar. ‘That’s my father’s man you’re kicking,’ howled the she-wolf.“<Snip>”The she-wolf laid into the squires with a tourney sword, scattering them all.”
“………..Jon took a step forward…….”.Halder stop”. The Bastard wishes to defend his lady love, so we shall make an exercise of it. Rat, Pimple, help our Stone Head here.” Rast and Albett moved to join Halder. “Three of you ought to be sufficient to make Lady Piggy squeal. All you need do is get past the Bastard.” “Stay behind me,” Jon said to the fat boy.”
Why the secrecy?
Safety
It isn’t just a matter of one’s physical state it’s your entire well-being. I think Lya extracted at least two promises from Ned.One that was very specific “take me home to winterfell” which carried its own consequences for Ned;the other was specifically general “watch over him,keep him safe”, which required Ned to lie to loved ones, dishonor himself and accrue a measure of risk. Sadly, I believe Robert would be a danger to Jon .Had Robert known about Jon he would want him at court, would acknowledge and legitimize him. A son by the woman he loved…..Hell yeah, but to any lord with ambition for a daughter, Jon would be a threat. Same for any woman Robert married, and her children he would be a threat. In this case it would be Cersei and the Lannisters and i think that has a purpose as well in the narrative
“Once, after that sorry business with the cat, he (Robert) had made some noises about bringing some baseborn daughter of his to court. “Do as you please,” she’d told him, “but you may find that the city is not a healthy place for a growing girl.” (AFFC, Cersei).
“There was another bastard, a boy (Gendry), older. I took steps to see him removed from harm’s way…but I confess, I never dreamed the babe would be at risk. A base born girl, less than a year old, with a whore for a mother, what threat could she pose?” “She was Robert’s that was enough for Cersei it would seem (Tyrion & Varys ACOK).
“Cersei could not have been pleased by her lord husband’s by-blows, yet in the end it mattered little whether the king had one bastard or a hundred. Law and custom gave the baseborn few rights. Gendry, the girl in the Vale, the boy at Storm’s End, none of them could threaten Robert’s trueborn children.”
“He gave Ned a sideways glance. “I’ve also heard whispers that Robert got a pair of twins on a serving wench at Casterly Rock, three years ago when he went west for Lord Tywin’s tourney. Cersei had the babes killed, and sold the mother to a passing slaver. Too much an affront to Lannister pride, that close to home.”
“He remembered the angry words they had exchanged when Tywin Lannister had presented Robert with the corpses of Rhaegar’s wife and children as a token of fealty. Ned had named that murder; Robert called it war…………. You are no Tywin Lannister, to slaughter innocents.”
“Your Robert got me with child once,” she said, her voice thick with contempt. “My brother found a woman to cleanse me .AGOT—Cersei to Ned.
“Catelyn Tully was a mouse, or she would have smothered this Jon Snow in his cradle. Instead, she’s left the filthy task to me (AFFC Cersei).”
Of course,the other mentionable is if Robert at Harrenhall did rape Lyanna And he didn’t recall it because he was drunk.Who wold want to know that as their origin.
Social/religious stigma:
Legitimization does not remove the stain on bastards,it remains as well as the belief about them. Except this would be throughout the realm.
“The old High Septon told my father that king’s laws are one thing, and the laws of the gods another. Trueborn children are made in a marriage bed and blessed by the Father and the Mother, but bastards are born of lust and weakness, he said. King Aegon decreed that his bastards were not bastards, but he could not change their nature. The High Septon said all bastards are born to betrayal”—Egg to Dunk.
“Bastard children were born from lust and lies, men said; their nature was wanton and treacherous. Once Jon had meant to prove them wrong, to show his lord father he could as good a true son as Robb Stark.” —Jon Snow.
“You know I cannot take him south. There will be no place for him at court. A boy with a bastard’s name . . . you know what they will say of him. He will be shunned (AGOT,Cat).
“If the gods frowned so on bastards, he thought dully, why did they fill men with such lusts? Ned.”
No matter what Robert’s feeling might have been, Jon was better off at Winterfell and away from the intrigue of Southern court and its politics. As a mention, I think you all might see the narrative purpose with Cersie in play with her hatred of Robert especially in light of Tyrion’s keen insight.Robert in her mind robbed Cersie of what she could of had with Rhaegar and what she could of had with him.On the account of a girl she didn’t think measured up to her….Burn
Lastly, as i mentioned before.If Robert drunk at Harrenhall did rape Lyanna there’s no way Ned would tell Robert that.Robert would have probably killed himself.He could always lie to Jon but as long as Robert was alive this couldn’t happen the realization of what he done.OUCH.
Timelines and namedaysNow we come to it, the seeming spoke in the wheel “timelines” which is ambiguous just the way George meant it to be I believe. But in spite of this, there are hints as to how things unfolded. Specifically clues in the narrative that indicate Jon is older than he and we think. Before I proceed I think it’s important to look at this quote from GRRM as it may also be a clue.
“The reason I am never specific about dates and distances is precisely so that people won’t sit down and do this sort of thing. My suggestion would be to put away the ruler and the stopwatch, and just enjoy the story.—GRRM” http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Chronology_and_Distances
The Bastard contingency
“He had a man’s needs, after all, and they had spent that year apart, Ned off at war in the south while she remained safe in her father’s castle at Riverrun. Her thoughts were more of Robb, the infant at her breast, than of the husband she scarcely knew……”
“It came as no surprise to her, in the first year of her marriage, to learn that Ned had fathered a child on some girl chance met on campaign. He had a man’s needs, after all, and they had spent that year apart, Ned off at war in the south while she remained safe in her father’s castle at Riverrun.”
“He did more than that. The Starks were not like other men. Ned brought his bastard home with him, and called him “son” for all the north to see. When the wars were over at last, and Catelyn rode to Winterfell, Jon and his wet nurse had already taken up residence (agot,Cat.Chpt 6).”
A couple of quotes have been used to “establish” Jon’s age.The above two uses Cat’s belief about when she thought Ned fathered Jon.Cat’s statement can’t be used because her belief has no bearing on Jon’s actual age.As we can see in the first year of their marriage she found out Ned had fathered a child chance met on campaign.This is ambiguous and a bit of a play on perception as chance met on campaign could have been anytime after Ned called his banners.Cat isn’t sure about this,but this “girl” possibly given a name the more people talk.
She is making this determination on information she recieved on Ned’s “relationship” with Ashara Dayne.There’s plenty for her to glean from;Harrenhall,the reports from Ned’s guards.
They whispered of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, deadliest of the seven knights of Aerys’s Kingsguard, and of how their young lord had slain him in single combat. And they told how afterward Ned had carried Ser Arthur’s sword back to the beautiful young sister who awaited him in a castle called Starfall on the shores of the Summer Sea. The Lady Ashara Dayne, tall and fair, with haunting violet eyes. It had taken her a fortnight to marshal her courage, but finally, in bed one night, Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face.
We also know that Ned has a history of avoidance. He let’s everyone who has an idea about Jon run with it.Never offering any detail.Even more telling is Cat asking him about Jon.The below tells us that this was the first time there was a conversation about Jon with Cat and he shut her down quick.So any information Cat believes about Jon unless it came from Ned has no bearing on validating when Jon was conceived. It’s all about perception and fans have taken Cat’s statement to be an indicator when it shouldn’t be.Cat knows nothing of this,because Ned told her nothing.He is the only person whereby truth can come and he said nada. Cat has no facts that tell her when Jon was born.She chooses to believe it was after their wedding night because that protects Robb.
That cut deep. Ned would not speak of the mother, not so much as a word…finally, in bed one night, Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face. That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her. “Never ask me about Jon,” he said, cold as ice. “He is my blood, and that is all you need to know.” (AGOT).
The next issue people will have is how does one pass off Jon as a newborn? Did he? Or did he just let people go with what they wanted to believe.The better bet is Jon is Ned’s son and he was born after Robb. An idea an belief that makes it easy for Cat’s sensibility and the stability of her in her legitimate children’s status.If as some believe Ned left some Fisherman’s daughter preggers with Jon he is definitely older than Robb. Nobody seems to care or comment on that.Like the story of the FMD I think there were tell tale signs Jon was older.
“Take me with you when you go back to the Wall,” Jon said in a sudden rush <snip>“I am almost a man grown,” Jon protested. “I will turn fifteen on my next name day, and Maester Luwin says bastards grow up faster than other children. “That’s true enough,” Benjen said with a downward twist of his mouth.”
“He’d heard it said that bastards grow up faster than other children; on the Wall, you grew up or you died.”
From the first quote it seems there were discussions about this at Winterfell but it is concealed in the “he’s a bastard so that’s why” ideology.Seeing as this is in the context of reaching manhood Jon was most likely maturing before Robb. Getting hair in places before Robb, voice deepens before Robb. Generally act more mature.
Lastly,and going back to Syrio’s lesson “people see what they expect to see instead of what’s there.” When shit’s going on and people have other stuff going on they don’t “see” It’s also funny that we have Jon himself doing the same thing I’m proposing happened to him passing off an older baby for a younger one. Gilly’s baby was born in 299, Dalla’s in 300,we don’t know if they are weeks apart, months or a year that’s not important in comparison to the blinders people put on when someone in authority says “thus is the case” Jon said Monster was Aemon and so he was.Nobody noticed anything because they didn’t care to.
Now it’s time for the “major evidence” used to support Jon being born one month give or take of the Sack (Citadel) and that’s the SSM “Jon was born 8-9 month before Dany thereabouts” in conjunction with Dany’s belief that “Dany was born 9 moons after their midnight flight to Dragonstone.”
The first issue is the obvious one and its really funny by the way and there’s no way no one haven’t thought of this. If we take what Dany was told about her conception and birth, along with all the other surface readings surrounding Jon’s parentage ,in addition to GRRM’s quote then there is no secret of Jon’s parentage, there never was. If so GRRM gave it away in that SSM. All we have to do is count 9mths prior, which most people have been doing and boom.So what has people been arguing about since the SSM. Let’s look at this,why would GRRM give away such specific detail and yet act all cryptic about when Jon was born.He could have said a month or so give or take of the sack he wouldn’t have been giving anything away we were all going to figuring out by approximating at the minimum…..Unless the details of Dany’s conception and birth is not as it is and he could say what he said because though it is true-Jon was born 9months prior to Dany.Dany was not born 9months after the flight to Dragonstone.
The above isn’t the only problem, there’s some other major inconsistencies that have emerged and I’ve bulleted some of them below. But because of length constraints I prefer if as a group we talk about them if the above isn’t enough to convince you that like Bruce Willis on Sixth sense we have turned our eyes to the obvious.
Jamie’s account of the hooded figure
Rescue by Willem Darry of Viserys and Dany on “Dragonstone?”
The worst storm in Westrosi history that affected no other except the Targ fleet.
Viserys’s Black sail conundrum-Not the TV series.
Lemon tree and Pole boats
This summer had lasted ten years. Jon had been a babe in arms when it began”
Rhaegar the dead beat father ….why Aegon should spit on his grave.
Shout outs: I would like to give big props to posters like Pretty Pig, Frey Family Reunion,Markg171 and whoever spotted the anomaly with the Lemon tree for the majority of the bullet points. You all took plenty flack for what were spot on observations IMO….The truth is never popular, remember that.
Points of contention that will come up and counters
1. Jon doesn’t have black hair like the rest of Robert’s bastards.
“The seed is strong, Jon Arryn had cried on his deathbed, and so it was. All those bastards, all with hair as black as night. Grand Maester Malleon recorded the last mating between stag and lion, some ninety years ago,… Their only issue, an unnamed boy described in Malleon’s tome as a large and lusty lad boar with a full head of black hair. … No matter how far back Ned searched in the brittle yellowed pages, always he found the gold yielding before the coal.”
A. Gendry remembers that his mom had yellow hair
B. Barra’s mother ….Had light red hair.
What is being observed and told to us is the outcome between the black hairs of Baratheons with the gold hair of the Lion. No info is given to us on the outcome with dark haired women i.e Dark brown.
2. Ned said Robert didn’t know Lyanna so there “neener, neener.”
A. Actually Ned said:
“You never knew Lyanna as I did, Robert. You saw her beauty, but not the iron underneath.”
Ned is simply pointing out the difference in their relationship with the same woman. His knowledge and intimacy as a sibling will be different to Robert’s knowledge and intimacy as the intended. Robert never saw Lyanna’s iron side because he never warranted her showing that side to him. Plus, based on what Ned said Lya would have told Robert, Robert was right, Lyanna would not have spoken to him the way Cersei did which was the point Robert was trying to make.
3.Welllll Wolfmaid what about Bella huh,if Robert loved Lya so much why he banged all the whores at the Stoney Step and fathered her huh,huh?
“I’m a king’s daughter myself.”
Arya knew she was being mocked. “You are not.”
“Well, I might be.” When the girl shrugged, her gown slipped off one shoulder. “They say King Robert fucked my mother when he hid here, back before the battle. Not that he didn’t have all the other girls too, but Leslyn says he liked my ma the best.”
a. This is a rumor of which even Bella is unsure. Most likely created to make the brothel more popular. In this case Robert’s reputation is probably working against him here.
Rhaegar’s Pekong: Pekong is a form of social commentary with a hidden insult or attempt shaming at its core, it can be an extreme form of teasing.
This part was/isn’t necessary for making a case for Robert as Jon’s Daddy. But I think it important to explain what i think Rhaegar’s actions at the Tourney was about, what it was saying and the consequence .The display had naught to do with admiration, promise of love, political machinations nor it prophetically driven; it was Rhaegar’s wit on steroids. What Rhaegar did had cultural significance to the Starks that should be taken into consideration. Given Rhaegar’s bookish nature it’s not unreasonable to think that he may have encountered the tale of Bael and the Stark maiden before and pulled it from his memory bank at the tourney.
“Be that as it may, what’s certain is Bael left the child in payment for the rose he plucked unasked –Ygritte to Jon (ACOK,Jon).”
Contextually, the rose does not signify a baby, but the Stark maiden’s virginity and Bael deflowered her. Per Ygritte’s tale:
“He (Lord Stark) followed the sound and found his daughter back in her bedchamber, asleep with a babe at her breast.” “Bael had brought her back?” “No. They had been in Winterfell all the time, hiding with the dead beneath the castle.”
Bael didn’t take her, but what he did take was rare indeed. Her maiden’s head.
“but the old chronicles of Winterfell say nothing of him (Bael). Whether this was due to the defeats and humiliation he was said to have visited upon them (including, according to one improbable story deflowering a Stark maiden and getting her with child) WB pg, 149.”
Fun fact: A girl’s Hymen before getting torn looks like an inverted flower? This is where the term “deflower” originated. Furthermore a crown of roses in general is considered a maiden’s crowning glory. We see this in several myths where the goddess is in her maiden form and on bride’s to be. It’s a symbol linked to purity and chasteness and that of being untouched.
We will continue in the vein that blue rose(s) is linked to a Stark girl’s virginity in verse. Thus, Rhaegar laying the crown of roses in her lap in front of her brothers per the story the Starks know so well implied that Lya was no maiden thus deflowering had already occurred. Now if the Stark boys saw this as an insult, how did Lyanna -coming from the same cultural background- interpret this gesture from Rheagar? I’m making a guess here but she may have been humiliated.
“That night at the great castle, the storm lord and the knight of skulls and kisses (Richard Lonmouth who was also a close friend and squire to Rhaegar also he was a Storm lander (Hmmm) each swore they would unmask him,<snip>. But the next morning,<snip>. The Knight of the Laughing Tree had vanished. The king was wroth, and even sent his son the dragon prince to seek the man, but all they ever found was his painted shield, hanging abandoned in a tree.
This statement here is speculation based on Harwin’s take of the atmosphere at the tourney and the theme element represented at Beltane. Robert and Lya like other couples probably “hooked up” at the Tourney and Rhaegar guessed, a friend told him,he figured it out ; take your pick. But, on the last day of the Tourney he dropped the 411, a reference only the Starks would get. It was the truth cleverly wrapped that alluded to a previous shame in Stark history. I know some people are reading this and saying there’s no way Rhaegar, golden boy Rhaegar would do something like this. Well it may surprise to you but yes he would.
“Rhaegar took no interest in the play of other children. The maesters were awed by his wits, but his father’s knights would jest sourly that Baelor the Blessed had been born again (asos,Dany.Chpt 8).
Wit: a natural aptitude for using words and ideas in a quick and inventive way sometimes to create humor.
Rhaegar’s show and tell had a profound effect on Ned and Brandon. Though Ned wasn’t overtly expressive as Brandon, his description was very telling.
“Ned remembered the moment when all the smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife………….. He could see it still: a crown of winter roses, as blue as frost. Ned Stark reached out his hand to grasp the flowery crown, but beneath the pale blue petals, the thorns lay hidden….. He felt them clawing at his skin, sharp and cruel, saw the slow trickle of blood run down his fingers, and woke……-GoT, pg. 631.
Note: Thorns in a crown is tied to a rather famous event in our world as a mockery to Jesus the Christ. As the Romans mocked Jesus as King of the Jews with their Crown of thorns, Rhaegar’s gesture mocked Lyanna as a maiden. That display, to the Starks was sharp and it was cruel…… It hurt. Rhaegar’s little show drew blood, first blood….
..You all saw what Ned did to LF when he said Cat was in his whore house? It was true she was,but the implication of LFs statement was that she was a whore.Ned was seriously going to cut his ass.There’s something else to this with regard to the LF/Brandon and Cat ‘duel for her hand’ but again this goes toward the notion there are some things you don’t do with regard to a lady.Some behaviors that can set her man to blaze.
We are almost at the end, so let’s have a bit of fun with a little exercise.
Spot the Ghost Grass: A Ghost grass is excessive mirroring of words and phrase that may just be that.
1.“I failed you, Robert, Ned thought. He could not say the words. I lied to you, hid the truth. I let them kill you.”AGOT,Ned Chpt 58.
–Ned lied to Robert about Jon being Ned’s and Wylla’s. The truth he hid, that Jon was R & L
2.”Fathers are like that,” he admitted as he pinned the folds with a silver clasp. “Tell him he should be pleased. As many times as I’ve fucked you, you’re likely with child. It’s not every man who has the honor of raising a king’s bastard.”ACOK,Theon Chpt 11
Seeing as Theon’s entire internal monologue consisted of Ned and Robert conquest of Pyke It’s so clear, Ned had been raising King Robert’s bastard.
3.“My son, how could I have made a son like that Ned………..“It would not trouble me if the boy was wild, <snip>Agot Ned.”
“Thorne staggered back, rubbing the marks Jon’s fingers had left on his neck. “You see for yourselves, brothers. The boy is a wildling.” Jon,Asos.
-Robert’s true son has been called wild and he’s on the Wall.
4.“His father was observing all the courtesies, but there was tightness in him that Jon had seldom seen before. He said little, looking out over the hall with hooded eyes, seeing nothing. Two seats away, the king had been drinking……………Father took the king down to the crypts this afternoon.
“She was more beautiful than that,” the king said after a silence. His eyes lingered on Lyanna’s face, as if he could will her back to life.”
– Ned was nervous because Jon and Robert were in the same room for the first time. Robert knows Lya’s face intimately so there is a possibility he would have seen a bit of Lya in Jon.
You know because Jon looks like Arya and Arya looks like Lyanna. By the way Jon your father went to visit your mother.
5.“That’s the real king of this castle right there,” one of the gold cloaks had told her. “Older than sin and twice as mean. One time, the king was feasting the queen’s father, and that black bastard hopped up on the table and snatched a roast quail right out of Lord Tywin’s fingers. Robertlaughed so hard he like to burst. You stay away from that one, child.”
“The wildling pulled off the band from his left arm and tossed it at Jon, then did the same with its twin upon his right. “Your first payment. Had those from my father and him from his. Now they’re yours, you thieving black bastard.”
“The Black Bastard of the wall, one man had called him. Even Jon would never know Blind Beth, i bet. That made her sad.”
Whoop there it is confirmation!!
In conclusion:
It has been said that clues in this series supports one man as Jon’s father. No other combination stands up against (some test that apparently most of us didn’t get the memo on).You decide. I’ve shown that Robert and Lyanna were sexually involved and the clues highlighted also supports mutual love between them. Additionally the essay has showed connections between Robert/Jon, Lyanna /Jon and even found the common thread that connects all three thematically in and out of verse. The need for secrecy when it came to Jon was quite clear and still is relevant to the story emotionally, politically and magically if Jon is revealed to be the son of Robert Baratheon and Lyanna Stark.
<><><><><><><><><><>END OF CASE<><><><><><><>
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